Wednesday, October 7, 2009

Stam L'haar

You heard of this thing called marriage? It kinda takes a lot of energy and whatnot. So if you don't see too much blogging shtuff from moi? Just know that the less time I spend online the more I'm spending with my lovely wife, and that can't possibly be a bad thing.

26 comments:

sarabonne said...

Yes, but we miss her too.

Mottel said...

They'll be back . . . until the kids come around.

C said...

Lol :)

Cheerio said...

no it cant :) but there are some very excited people who are waiting for next week to roll around!

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

On the other hand she should understand the commitment inherent in marrying such a commited blogger..

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

...joking, by the way..

e said...

well if that's the case, go ahead and enjoy yourselves.

e said...

AURGH!!! your transliterations are horrible! "l'haar"? wtf is that?

the sabra said...

Some people talk to walls. He talks to mountains.

Feivel ben Mishael said...

l'haar = l'ho-ir = arouse as in arouse mercy?

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

e: Yeah man, whoever said Ashkenazim aren’t so into dikduk wasn’t f—king joking..

Feivel: I can’t tell if you’re joking, but if not; no it also means to bring attention to subject.

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

*ahem*, “a” subject.

the sabra said...

Oh. And I thought you were addressing a har. Silly me.

The Real Shliach said...

e said...
well if that's the case, go ahead and enjoy yourselves.

Thanks, we are :)

e said...

Isn't l'ha'ir related to the word "or," i.e. "to bring to light"?

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

e: With a 'ה' it means that, but there's a similar word with an 'ע' which has a similar meaning ("הערה". ..which was the word I supposed he meant)..

Feivel ben Mishael said...
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Feivel ben Mishael said...

I have no idea what I was thinking.
Morning after Simchas Torah.

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

I figured it was להער but that should have a tzerei "l'ha-eyr" or some such

Shriki: I am an ashkenazi and the acknowledged dhikDUQ freak of several shuls and at least one yeshiva

jewpublic club said...

Don't worry real shliach, you'll come back. Just wait till after you finish Collel, take my word for it

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

Modeh: Yeah I don't know man, Ashkenazi dikduk is pretty weird sometimes...it's like they try way too hard and don't get anywhere.

By the way, if you're so into dikduk:

1) "tzerei" (צֵרֵי)- First of all there's obviously no "ei" sound in Hebrew since that's a "dipthong", and is not found in Semetic languages, but I'm guessing you're only doing it in the end of the word due to the last יוד in the word (unless you feel there's a second יוד...which would make your transliteration inconsistant).

..I mean, the צירי ("ṣērê" perhaps) is not exactly like the סגול, but it's certainly not "ei". ..which is something all the anceint schools of ניקוד would agree upon)...

2) "dhikDUQ" (דִקְדּוּק)- Again, you're giving the same litters different sounds. "ממה נפשך"; if the ק is a Q then why is the first one a K?

Also, I'm not going to ask about the inital "dh", since perhaps you meant that since it's "soft" (i.e. not מנוקד) the sound is, as the מדקדקים say, not completely a D sound, but rather bordering on ז territory (but I like the concluding caps that make sure that people put the stress on the end of the word).

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

1- When I said "tzeirei" (and your right about spelling, it's just too much trouble) I was not talking about Hebrew, I was speaking Ashkenohzus which, while not authentic by any stretch of the imagination, is an ancient and time honored mode of speech.

2-Correction taken about the first k. It should read dhiq-DUQ. The dh is the proper dhaleth used by Yemenites. The caps are standard notation to stress that syllable.

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

"...is an ancient and time honored mode of speech"- I don't know if 'ancient' is the word. Anyway, I think there's sufficient evidence that אבותיהם של האשכנזים דיברו כספרדים. Although there were different pronounciations going way back, I think the Ashkenazi accent is a relatively recent Germanization of our ancestral language (English (and Yiddish obviously) being Germanic languages as well)...

Modeh B'Miktsas said...

The year 900 is ancient enough for me and should be for you too.

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...
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הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

Modeh: You should know that I wanted to return to this discussion for quite a while, but I've either forgotten or been too lazy. Anyway, you say that the "Ashkenazi accent" existed since the year 900 AD. I'm not sure that's very true. The majority of Ashkenazi Jews of that era lived in either Provence or France, and in both countries the indigenous language is pronounced in a "מלרע" sort of way. So why would the Jews change the part of the word that's stressed when reading Hebrew? (Even the French-Ashkenazi Jews I've seen today pronounce with a more-or-less Sefaradi accent.)

If you're talking about the קמץ, then many Middle Eastern and North African Jews also have a form of it. And if you're talking about the "ת רפויה" being pronounced like a סמך, that's not the only thing that defines a Ashkenazi accent.

What is confounding though is why the Jews pronounced like they did in countries such as Poland and Hungary, where the indigenous languages don't lend themselves to that sort of pronunciation. But the obvious answer is that they pronounce as they do for the same reason they continued to speak Judeo-German ("Yiddish") in Slavic-language countries: for whatever reason they decided to stick with speaking a Germanic language in Eastern Europe and their Hebrew was therefore kept Germanized and never "Slavisized". "והראיה", that in places like Poland and Hungary today, in which the Jews have been raised on the native languages for the first time in history, they're naturally inclined to read in an accent that's more similar to that of the Sefaradim/Israelis than the Pre-War Eastern European Jews...