Thursday, June 25, 2009

Gimmel Tammuz Virtual Farbrengan



Gimmel tammuz is an important day. I think it is appropriate for a "Crown Heights Underground" blog to be a place where we can talk about what Gimmel Tammuz means. I'd like to use the comment section of this post as a forum for such a discussion.

Yesterday, one of the shluchim here started singing "Gimmel tammuz didn't change a thing..." I turned to him and asked, "Do you really think that Gimmel tammuz didn't change anything?"

And now... I turn the question on you. Do you think that anything changed with Gimmel tammuz? I think we would all agree that something changed... but maybe differ on what changed. What do you think is different now?

30 comments:

C said...

I asked the question of Rabbi Zalman Bluming of Duke University. His response was that in terms of the Rebbe's connection with us, nothing has changed. However, in terms of our connection to the Rebbe... things have definitely changed.

Rabbi Bluming said that the Rebbe definitely cares now... even more than before.

fakewood inc. said...

why would you say he cares now more than before? are you saying the rebbe cared less for us before? thats just a plain dumb statement. gimmel tammuz didnt change anything.

Baruch said...

Perhaps TRS belives that something HAS changed... After all, before Gimmel Tammuz there were no "real" Shluchim, just plain old Shluchim. Nowdays, the need for realness has left us with no other choice but to seek out the few and true... such as TRS
So... what's the secret?
(How's that for my first comment Chanan =)?

The Real Shliach said...

Excellent, Baruch, but who says I believe anything?

e said...

Today I was wondering, what would the Rebbe have responded to those letters I wrote to him during my Yeshiva years, and what would he tell me now. I really have no idea.

le7 said...

Many a time I've wondered what sort of response I would get to my letters.

Altie said...

i wonder if he even bothers to read them at all, or just sees that they are from me and throws them out. i seem to write the same stuff all the time anyway.

wut changed? a very good question. but ud have to have had some recollection of 'before' to be able to define the 'now'. which most of us cant claim to have.

read this : http://from-the-holy-land.blogspot.com/2009/02/i-was-never-there.html

yes, something changed. but its not something definable, its just there, like the proverbal 'elepahant in the room'. something that everyone constantly thinks abt but is unwilling to talk abt. because there is no conclusion, it is a soul searching that each as an individual must do.

sadly, i spent my gimel tamuz traveling, in airports, on planes. so tired i tried mumbling davening but fell asleep. not very inspiring.

i think the main thing that 'changed' is that u have to look at a picture of the Rebbe, see his beautiful smile, and remind yourself that it did actually happen, and wasnt dreamed up by some chassidim. that he IS still here, even if u cant see him. THATS the hardest part. for me.

The Real Shliach said...

i wonder if he even bothers to read them at all, or just sees that they are from me and throws them out. i seem to write the same stuff all the time anyway.

As e would say, you're getting dangerously close to kfira.

Anonymous said...

Only the physical olam hasheker changed. The chair is empty. So is the room. In the real worlds nothing has changed.

Altie said...

trs- why am i a kofer?

anon- how do u define 'real' world?

The Real Shliach said...

You wonder if the Rebbe bothers to read what you write? Even the most hardened ex-lubav...

Altie said...

u dont understand. at the risk of baring my soul here...

i do not ch''v doubt the Rebbe's ability to recieve and read my letters. its like saying, i wrote a letter to a friend, but they probably dont like me enough to read it... it is my lack of self confidence talking, like why would the Rebbe bother with a little nobody like me. see?

i cant believe u even doubt me. ME!. i may be stupid sometimes, and even say things i dont mean, but my heart is in the right place

sarabonne said...

Ah don't be so hard on yourself, why wouldn't he read your letters? Nonsense, nereshkeit, ignore the little voices in your head that bring you down, it's a great way out of schizophrenia. That was a joke. But really.

Altie said...

lol. thank u, but u dont know the kind of things i have to say. no, i still dont think he wants to read them. maybe out of obligation..

The Real Shliach said...

The Rebbe reads them all because he loves you like a father loves his daughter.

And I'm sorry, I misunderstood. But my point immediately above that one still stands.

Altie said...

im not discussing this with u. i hate discussing this with u. to u it may seem to obvious, but to me its not.

thats how i feel. u cant tell me my feelings are wrong.

The Real Shliach said...

I'll right then, I'm not discussing this with you. Suit yourself.

Altie said...

i always suit myself.

its not like u have anything good to say anyway. ive heard it all before.

u believe it. good. good.

The Real Shliach said...

That's the kind of ahavas yisroel that is going to bring moshiach.

And what do I believe?

Altie said...

u make it so hard for me to be nice, but ill try.

"The Rebbe reads them all because he loves you like a father loves his daughter."

u believe it. I believe it. but where is the difference? in the feeling. u can BELIEVE something is true, but not actually feel that way in your heart

Crawling Axe said...

thats how i feel. u cant tell me my feelings are wrong.

Why not? I cannot tell you your feelings are not real, but I can tell you your feelings are wrong. Look: your feelings are wrong. The Rebbe reads your letters and expects you to do more than it is physically possible to be your best.

Altie said...

no u can not. if i say i hate you, u can't tell me my feelings are 'wrong'. they may not be justified, since i dont even know u, but they can not be 'wrong.

u dont know what the rebbe wants from me. and either way, why would he expect from me more than i can give?

Chassidim said...

We died.

The Real Shliach said...

Who's we, white boy?

C said...

Mendele let me down again, so haven't been online much, but sitting in Tachana Hamerkasit in Yerushalayim now. Lots to say, but it's kinda late in the game, so I'll just share one story.

There were a group of chasanim walking past the Rebbe for dollars and the Rebbe wished each one "bracha V'hatzlacha". But to one Chassan he asked, "did you get my letter?"

When the Chassan reached the other side, he started shaking. Apparently, a little while before there had been a discussion about whether the Rebbe reads the letters he signs, or just signs them and the secretary takes care of everything else. The group was divided... some guys said the Rebbe read each name before he signed it, and the others said the Rebbe didn't actually read them, but he knew to whom the letters were written. There was one guy who said that the Rebbe just signed them and had no idea to whom they were going.

And yes, that guy was the aforementioned chassan...

everyone's favorite heretic said...

the Rebbe was a cool guy. no sarcasm.

yitz.. said...

Hi, I just happened upon BB ..

was curious to read the comments of this post..
to know how Chabadnikim think of the Rebbe currently.. [I only know some of the Hassidut of the Alter Rebbe] Thanks to all of you for sharing.

If I could share my thoughts (limited by the fact that I haven't had the benefit of much exposure to the Rebbe's Hassidut -- only one sicha) I would think that it's clear from Igrot haKodesh (in the Tanya) in the letter the Alter Rebbe wrote to console the mourners of the Pri HaAretz, that during the Rebbe's corporeal lifetime, our ability to perceive the Rebbe's ahavah/yirah/emunah were hidden and now it's possible to experience (ie. l'hasig) them directly through our love for him.

@Altie, I'm assuming you don't have children -- I think when you have children, you will better understand what it *feels* like to be a parent and to treat every little thing your children produce as if it is more precious than gold -- maybe then you will really be able to *feel* that the Rebbe not only reads but prizes your letters. [which reminds me of a teaching that touched me from the Baal Shem Tov, (i believe in Tzava'at HaRivash) that just as a father is excited when his child says 'abba' even if the child doesn't even know what he's saying, so too HaShem takes great joy in our calling out His name, even if we don't know what we're saying.]

For myself, all I can say is that I wish I had a chance to see the Rebbe.. even if it was only as a child and I had forgotten the memory.

Altie said...

yitz- u may be right. but if your child is upset at you, or vice versa, the love is still there, but it is seemingly hidden, to one or the other. if the child feels that you are not happy with him, he may think that at that moment you no longer love him, even though that isnt true. children percieve things differeantly.

e said...

aha! So you gotta think like an adult.

Altie said...

maybe when i become one